What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

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Zippy Zapp
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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by Zippy Zapp » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Not a fan of the REMOVED censorship. This forums is nice and it doesn't need to resort to that.


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JimDrew
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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by JimDrew » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:58 am

eslapion wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:55 pm
We all know which forum is the focal point of this little cult. On any decent forum, people posting technical falsehoods will immediately by brought back to reality by competent people - it happened here with Jim Drew - but on said forum, the worshiped can post any rearrangement of reality as they see fit. Dare question what they say and you're in for big trouble.
LOL! What reality are you talking about? What I have stated is 100% fact, not "technical falsehoods", easily backed up by your basic TTL book (not to mention common sense). Stating that Jens or myself have no idea what we are doing makes you look rather foolish. We have been doing this longer than most of the people here have been alive. You are certainly welcome to question anything I do. Just don't get mad when I explain something that you can't understand and/or agree with.

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by eslapion » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:31 pm

JimDrew wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:58 am
LOL! What reality are you talking about? What I have stated is 100% fact, not "technical falsehoods", easily backed up by your basic TTL book (not to mention common sense). Stating that Jens or myself have no idea what we are doing makes you look rather foolish. We have been doing this longer than most of the people here have been alive. You are certainly welcome to question anything I do. Just don't get mad when I explain something that you can't understand and/or agree with.
Oh My!
Schönfeld claimed in the Atmel PLA thread that there's nothing wrong with a logic threshold of 4.7V. Thomas 'Skoe' Giesel had to put the final word about this stuff... You have yourself defended falsehoods which were total nonsense and bulldozed down here by myself, Gyro Gearloose and many other qualified engineers...

FYI: TTL logic ICs AND Commodore 65XX/85XX MOS/CSG ICs have a logic threshold of 1.3V while 5V powered CMOS HC chips have a logic threshold of 2.5V. Using HC chips as direct substitutes for TTL-LS chips is WRONG. You MUST use HCT chips if you want to move from TTL to CMOS.

Remember the TI chart for logic signal compatibility posted by Gyro ?

Here's an excerpt from Skoe's post that was in response to the absolute technical nonsense posted by yourself and Schönfeld...
...
Another point: Please trust on reasonable measurements instead of buzzwords and weird claims done by some guys here.

One example: In the paper linked above the SuperPLA was the only one that caused considerable ringing of a few 100 mV with significant undershoots (Fig. 3.15 in PLA Dissected). In addition, the external KERNAL of the EasyFlash3 did work with all PLAs in my tests, e.g., 82S100, MOS 7700, MOS 7800, and M27C512-90B6. The only PLA which did not work reliable with the external KERNAL was the SuperPLA V2. The reason was easy to find: The SuperPLA produced a weird glitch on the CASRAM line. I did not post this in public at that time because I knew that the external KERNAL makes some uncommon things on the bus which do not happen in "normal C64 traffic". However, I gave Jens (wiesel) a hint in a private mail, as the SuperPLA was the only one that failed. He fixed it, so the successor SuperPLA V3 should work without a problem. I think there's no reason to hide this story, especially considering that he still seems to spread FUD regarding his "superior" PLA in this forum.

About the bus contention crap: In PLA Dissected I investigated an effect resulting from that: Increased power consumption because of ICs driving the bus against each other for short moments. In table 3.5 one can see that the effects of (no) bus contention are nearly the same for the samples of SuperPLA, MOS 8700R2, M27C512-90B6 and realPLA I used. The only PLA that caused noticeable effects, a 10 mA higher current draw, was the 93459PC. The reason were the very slow rising edges of that chip, this would be even more noticeable when parts with higher threshold values are on the bus, like CMOS parts. And know what? The 93459PC was one of the parts used in original C64s. So forget the stories about the evil bus contention.

Another myth: I think it's not too difficult to build a PLA replacement that works in 99% of the C64s. But I think that it is close to impossible to build one that works in *all* C64s and hardware extensions. I found machines that did not work with one MOS PLA but with a different one. In early machines even Commodore fiddled with RC delays to get it working, just check remark 7 on http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/ ... 8-1of2.gif. So what, forget the "PLA war".

Somewhere I read an argument by Jens regarding EPROMs used to replace KERNAL roms. One typical part is a 27C64. And now check a datasheet: http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/techn ... 000519.pdf. As you can see, the input ranges (VIL, VIH) were pimped to be TTL (and therefore NMOS) compatible, Vth is less than 2V. That's no surprise, as these chips were usually combined with NMOS technology, even though they were manufactured in CMOS. To say it in other words: These are CMOS parts, but do not use the CMOS logic levels of families like 74HCxx but levels as 74HCTxx. But that story about these CMOS parts was just more FUD.

Well, have fun with your hobby =)

P.S. I also see 4.7 V in that screenshot, not 2.x V. I wonder why nobody else saw it.
You also said the 10mA PLA is a myth and that was checked by Skoe in his technical document here: http://skoe.de/docs/c64-dissected/pla/c ... 1_a4ss.pdf

You dared me to make a PLA substitute that works on ALL C64 boards well, why don't you give PLAnkton a try ? I thoroughly expained how and why it works well on all C64 boards, you confronted me on just about everything I said about this issue yet I have sold 700 of them with a money back guarantee and not a single one returned, not a single customer asked for his money back.

I can't agree with nor understand willful ignorance...
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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by ckoba » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:09 am

... and that's the last we'll hear from Jim until he thinks everyone has forgotten how decisively his claims were trounced. That's his MO, going back to USENET days: make wild, unsubstantiated claims (with a common thread being "Jim knows EVERYTHING, everyone else are idiots"), get thrashed, go silent for months sulking, rinse and repeat.

The bit where he claimed to have ported Adobe Illustrator to the Amiga in assembler using "MACROS" (his caps), to be called a flat-out liar by a guy on the Illustrator team, was particularly amusing.

Jim will never change. One hopes that he gets tired of the Commodore community the way that he got tired of the Amiga community, though.

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by Gyro Gearloose » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:39 am

Image
Image
The price one pays for pursuing any profession, or calling, is an intimate knowledge of its ugly side.

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by ckoba » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:06 am

Careful, Jim will claim that he both invented and patented the A-Team and palm trees, but a bunch of nerds from Portland/Vancouver stole his ideas ...

(for those not in the know, that's an oblique reference to Jim's ShapeShifter hissy fit wherein he insisted that the author must have stolen patented Emplant code, while conveniently ignoring Commodore employees asking why he was using clearly-stolen Commodore code ... as well as his ongoing war with reality regarding the origins of the RAMBoard/SuperCard in something MegaSoft itself marketed as the "Track Trap" years before either of the other two existed)
Last edited by ckoba on Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by eslapion » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:11 am

ckoba wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:06 am
Careful, Jim will claim that he both invented and patented the A-Team and palm trees, but a bunch of nerds from Portland/Vancouver stole his ideas ...
Or a guy in Quebec...
Wealth, like happiness, is never attained directly. It comes as a by-product of providing a useful service. -Harland D. Sanders

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by ckoba » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:14 am

eslapion wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:11 am
Or a guy in Quebec...
Jim has many lawyers on staff (probably more lawyers than programmers), but they don't seem to be able to handle overseas cases (cf. the Christian Bauer incident, and yes I know Canada is not technically overseas from Lake Havasu), so I think you're safe.

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by eslapion » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:41 pm

@Gyro:
Face - Palm
Subtle one...
Wealth, like happiness, is never attained directly. It comes as a by-product of providing a useful service. -Harland D. Sanders

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Re: What the %$@# is up with links from certain other forums?

Post by eightbitswide » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:59 am

Image

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