Programming Rant

Prime

Programming Rant

Post by Prime » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:29 pm

Hmm 157 views in my last post and only myself,dudz,Wanax reply in the thread, that tells me there's quite a lot of unregistered people learning from me how to handle functions much better but refuse to give a thanks.So is it reasonable for me to stop teaching others and make it private to only programmers I know? One of the reasons is i love reverse engineering ai logic and sometimes it can take months to decipher the logic and structure. To share how the ai logic works in something like battletoads and not receive a thank you prime for months of work doesn't seem worth it to me.I find it completely sad a c64 coder won't comment ever(don't give credit ah that was clever didn't think of handling it that way)where a programmer that is confident in his skill will comment, example Wanax is an excellent programmer and left a comment.I think myself,Satpro,Wanax are very old schooled programmers, we speek the unspoken programmer rule, Give Credit if another programmer taught you something.Guaranteed you can teach the other programmer also!That's how programming works.

Extra:
Only some coders will understand this(all programmers will nod yup)
I don't speak Japanese,Chinese,Vietnamese,ect... but if you send me code I will understand you %100 how cool is that!If that isn't enough Initiative to speak a universal language than maybe programming isn't for you.


http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
Programming takes a lifetime 10 years is not enough just an example
I've 25+ years programming, Satpro has 40+ years neither of us has mastered it.....
What do to programmers with that much experience do? Share code and knowledge gained through the years
I've never really used callbacks in assembly for games, until Satpro taught me
Melon really created the perfect c64 programers forum, with added fun (thanks zap)
I'm a little surprised there isn't more questions, Since Shaun is heading up the basic programming excellent
Last edited by Prime on Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wanax
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Re: Programming Rant

Post by Wanax » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:53 pm

They are shy people...joking aside, they had no comments on his own work eventually one gets tired...at least a thank you! :(

Prime

Re: Programming Rant

Post by Prime » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:15 pm

Wanax wrote:They are shy people...joking aside, they had no comments on his own work eventually one gets tired...at least a thank you! :(
How much commenting would you recommend give me an example my friend.
I figured it isn't that difficult to understand as you understood all my code right away.
But your a programmer and I forget that sometimes,that you look at things as I do.
Ya a simple thank you would be nice from people learning :)
That would encourage me to teach more.

Wanax
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Re: Programming Rant

Post by Wanax » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:43 pm

I didn't explain well, sorry my friend! I did not mean to the comments in the code, but for people to leave a comment for your work.

ajordison
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Re: Programming Rant

Post by ajordison » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:28 pm

Yes the programmer's lot is a lonely one. How many times have you been excited about cracking a thorny problem, only to explain it to your wife/girlfriend/whatever and get a "WTF are you talking about?" reply? She listens very carefully as I explain something but after a while you know she's switched off.

The 'problem' with assembly programming is it's a very niche area, so only a few devs are likely to understand what you did anyway, never mind comment on it. I've been programming for over 30 years (20+ commercially) so while I can appreciate what you do, I don't understand it. (Satpro will confirm my (lack of) assembly programming skills!).

Also (and this is not a dig at Melon) the target audience is small because the Melon forum is small at the moment, but then you wouldn't want to post it on REMOVED (other forums are available ;) ) as you'll attract the wrong kind of attention.

I think that for me, it's good that anyone appreciates your work, even if the feedback is lacking. 150+ views isn't bad!
Try out CBM prg Studio for all your Commodore development needs!
Stay a while...stay for erm quite a while!

Prime

Re: Programming Rant

Post by Prime » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:19 pm

Wanax wrote:I didn't explain well, sorry my friend! I did not mean to the comments in the code, but for people to leave a comment for your work.
Thanks my friend, atleast you understand the code and I enjoy sharing code with you as are style of programming is very close.

Prime

Re: Programming Rant

Post by Prime » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:28 pm

ajordison wrote:Yes the programmer's lot is a lonely one. How many times have you been excited about cracking a thorny problem, only to explain it to your wife/girlfriend/whatever and get a "WTF are you talking about?" reply? She listens very carefully as I explain something but after a while you know she's switched off.

The 'problem' with assembly programming is it's a very niche area, so only a few devs are likely to understand what you did anyway, never mind comment on it. I've been programming for over 30 years (20+ commercially) so while I can appreciate what you do, I don't understand it. (Satpro will confirm my (lack of) assembly programming skills!).

Also (and this is not a dig at Melon) the target audience is small because the Melon forum is small at the moment, but then you wouldn't want to post it on REMOVED (other forums are available ;) ) as you'll attract the wrong kind of attention.

I think that for me, it's good that anyone appreciates your work, even if the feedback is lacking. 150+ views isn't bad!
Arthur as I see a lot of your points and ya dev's will understand and use my code it's those guys that understand I would expect a heya Prime thanks good function.
We know what forum they come from!
I've a couple of guys I liked there sadly REMOVED 64 is there watering hole
Moloch
Encore
Wayne
cbmeeks

I know Moloch does visit the forum from csdb he's always gratuitous and supplies links

MarcWalters
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Re: Programming Rant

Post by MarcWalters » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:10 am

Different people have different needs. There will be a small percentage of viewers of any forum article who get something out of it. I think most will read through a bit, decide it's not relevant to their needs and exit, or maybe come back and read it at a later time when they do have an interest in seeing one of the methods used to do a programming task. And even then, of the few people who take it on board and even use some of the ideas presented, most of those may have had roughly the same idea anyway and just needed a bit of reassurance that other programmers had the same idea. The percentage of people who actually learn something they can apply in the near future is probably very, very low.

And if they find it via a Web search then chances are they are also reading another dozen similar C64 programming articles, getting from each a small amount of useful information that reinforces or adds to the whole of their knowledge. If a routine is definitive, or at least a superior way to do a task, then its existence needs to be justified by a commentary - especially if it is a dissection of someone else's code.

For example, I remember a forum discussion (I'm unsure which forum, though) in which someone presented code for sprite movement that computed the movement at sub-pixel fractions. One of the posters, maybe the OP or maybe not, explained exactly why the use of sub-pixel fractions was a better technique than the more obvious one (which most beginner programmers would first devise) that used velocity and counters. The comments that explained why it was a better way to move sprites were just as interesting to me (and probably most readers) as the code example. I didn't comment in that thread though because I'd already used the same technique in my commercial games and there was nothing I could add to the discussion.

So, in conclusion, I think that whether a person writes an article or dissects someone else's code, the main benefit to the writer should be the experience itself, because it leads to the development and improvement of transferable skills such as (a) technical writing, (b) the ability to understand an audience's needs, and (c) to deliver a quality product. Any public gratitude from readers should be considered a small, and rare, bonus.

Prime

Re: Programming Rant

Post by Prime » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:40 pm

I don't think a forum is the best place for this,i'll create a site and continue with it there.

satpro

Re: Programming Rant

Post by satpro » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:46 pm

Prime wrote:I don't think a forum is the best place for this,i'll create a site and continue with it there.
I've got lots of space if you need something.

Not that I'm arguing with any of the points you have made here, but you and I have talked privately about this. Remember our conclusion? --> something along the lines of "so what, sharing knowledge is good, don't worry about those guys"

So, the things you are doing are important, especially to people who are new, interested, and may not have seen this anywhere else. We cannot lose sight of the fact that if you are just now experiencing CBM programming for the first time you are already 30 years behind, there are no Compute!-style mags out there (which might be fun to revive!), and reference, repair info, and even the hardware itself is scarce now.

Share what you know! It is deeply appreciated here.

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